INTERVIEW: Justin Sider

Meet Justin Sider, local drag king and performing artist, musician and avid gardener. Propel is super excited to be working with him for two Youth Week WA KickstART Festival events, a drag workshop for young people, Drag Kingdom and KickstART’s first ever all ages drag performance, Drag Yourself Out! We sat down with Justin to chat about these two events, how he got into the industry and all things drag in Perth.

(Note: This interview contains coarse language.)

Photo credit: Justin Sider.

Who are you and what do you do?

I’m Justin Sider, I’m a drag king and a performing artist, musician and an avid gardener. I’ve been performing drag for almost three years. I started performing when I got top surgery in November 2019, and I entered Crown of the Court or Queen of the Court as it was called at the time, and managed to win, which was an amazing and really humbling experience. Since then I’ve been doing drag as much as I possibly can, and have started to bring in live performance and live music like rapping and singing. I’m also non-binary/trans.

 How did you get into drag?

For me, it was going to The Court, so every Wednesday there’s this event called Drag Factory and when I turned 18, The Court was the place to be if you were young and queer. It was amazing, every Wednesday I would see these queens performing, and one day it occurred to me why aren’t there any drag kings? And at the time I hadn’t seen any drag kings, again I was really sheltered so it wasn’t to say there weren’t any drag kings, I just didn’t see any. The only king I managed to see was Jason Green, I kind of looked at him and I thought, I really want to do that.

The reason I got into it was that I really wanted to represent my community, and at the time I was identifying as female and queer, and there wasn’t much space for women in the drag industry, for me it was also about exploring my gender expression.

Ironically, a fair amount of the people performing as drag queens identify as cis men, so the irony of it is that it’s a male dominated industry. It‘s really hard for people who identify as female to do drag even as a queen, and even for myself, I am one of very few people that is trans doing drag on the level that I am but in the last year or so I’ve seen a huge increase in drag kings and drag artists who don’t necessarily perform as a king or a queen they just perform drag in an androgynous way, so it’s really exciting.

What is the current Perth drag scene like especially for young people?

It’s amazing, when I started seeing drag, there were very few venues that were putting drag on. At that time it was mainly just Connections and The Court, and now we’re seeing places like Snatch, Cherry Bomb, Oddball and Spectacles Productions. Drag is starting to really get traction which is really exciting and there are more places for people to go and start, Cherry Bomb is really great one because it’s new and the audience are really young. If you’re starting out, you can go and bring your music on your USB and perform with the possibility of winning money from crowd cheers. It’s not a guaranteed paid spot but it is a guaranteed stage and audience with an amazing set up and an opportunity to meet some of the best drag performers on the scene performing alongside you and they’ll also mentor you throughout the whole process.

The drag scene and the people in the drag scene are really wonderful, diverse and welcoming. I build my drag wardrobe from several hand me downs from drag performers and learned how to put on a good show by watching and talking to people, and taking on feedback and I’m really grateful for that.

Photo credit: Justin Sider.

What kind of typical elements can you find in drag and what makes drag special?

Even though I’m a performing artist, I regularly admit that that I’m not an expert in drag, I’m constantly learning, growing and hearing from people around me. For me drag is about exploring the absurdities and wonderful aspects of gender. Justin was an opportunity to explore the masculine gender or the male gender. Obviously I put that on in a slightly exaggerated way. When I first started, it was about putting on a beard and boys clothes, and embodying a typical cis male. That helped me come to terms with who I am and as I got the hang of that it started to become more of a caricature of what I call the typical fuck boy or the typical player with a little bit of razzle dazzle thrown in there.  

When I started to feel limited or worried Justin was just one aspect of the male gender, I realised that he can embody so many things because he is this character. I recently did this performance where I dressed like a fawn, so I had giant horns on my head and a golden skirt and fur, and that was amazing. Other times it’s been quite theatrical with masks and it’s been quite abstract, and now it’s involving music. I think drag is really up to the person preforming it. It was started by black trans women as a way to celebrate their identity and to explore the hyper, gorgeous and the ridiculous aspects of femininity in a safe space.

Being a drag king has also been around for a very long time and in early England they had male impersonators at various shows. There’s a book by Sarah Waters called Tipping the Velvet, which is all about women dressing as men (they’re called ‘mashers’ in that era) and singing silly songs about dating. They’d throw roses to the women in the audience and wear tuxedoes. Makeup is one aspect, costume is another aspect but for me it’s more about that because anyone can put on a face and anyone can put on a costume but to become a drag performer, it’s about finding your character and what you’re trying to convey and feel.

You recently did a show called Justin Sider is D!ckless which Propel auspiced, which was your first ever one man show. How did that go?

Usually when someone hires a drag artist they’ll do a little spot where they’ll perform a song and that’s it, it’s like three minutes and you’re done and you have such a short amount of time to convey an idea. I’ve performed little one off performances like this, but for this show, I wrote a play and the story follows Justin on his search for self-discovery and dick recovery after waking up one morning and to discover his penis missing. For me it was an exploration of what makes a “man” and the way that as a drag king I perform as a man and I don’t have a penis. It was exploring that and expanding on Justin’s character because there’s only so much you can convey in three minutes, although being able to convey a message or an idea so quickly is one of favourite things about drag.

I was very fortunate and honoured to have received funding from City of Perth to put it on for Fringe where we sold out. I wrote the lyrics to all the songs, with backing tracks/beats provided by the amazing Kruger James, which was a really fun opportunity. I felt like I couldn’t really find songs that said what I needed to say, and being able to write the lyrics helped me tell the story.

What will the workshop Drag Kingdom look like? 

I’m still navigating how to do this workshop because there’s so many things I want to cover, I want to also make sure that people will get something out of it that they won’t find in a YouTube tutorial. I guess what I want to get out of the workshop is to give people a little bit of an understanding of my process, how it works, how I come up with my ideas, how I come up with the spots, how I got to where I am and to explore what a drag king is because not a lot of people know.

We might possibly get into the nitty gritty of putting together a look or a face, but again I think the costume and makeup is such a personal thing that that’s something I don’t want to tell anyone how to do. I’m happy to show them my process but I want the participants to come away with a sense of ownership, there’s no formula for drag it’s just about giving a it a go. I want people to feel I think I can do this.

Photo credit: Justin Sider.

We’re also really excited to be presenting KickstART’s very first drag performance, Drag Yourself Out!, what will it look like?

I’m really excited for this show because it’s available to all ages, which is so rare in Perth. There are these amazing festivals and all of these opportunities where people can get access to music and theatre shows but there’s nothing for drag. Drag is so often assumed to be either sexualised or related to drugs and alcohol, and that’s not necessarily the case. So I’m really excited about this. I’m going to bringing with me some of my favourite drag performers on the scene, and the line-up will be diverse, there will be kings and queens, performers of colour and it will be generally a good time. I’m just so excited that young people will be able to meet local drag artists.

Why do you think drag events are always 18+?

Initially I think the reason why is that drag shows are usually put on at clubs, and the main reason they’re put on at clubs is that they have the budget to do so. Drag is also usually designed for night time, as a lot of queens say, drag is not a summer sport, and I think it’s also the history and the culture. Like I said earlier, it started in the fringes, at the underground clubs and speakeasys where queer people had to hide, so that was where it was born from, and where its traditionally set is in clubs. They encourage people to drink and they have cocktails named after them, it’s just the culture and I think for one of the reasons why they’re not hired for places suitable for children is because typically drag performers are viewed as inherently sexual because for some reason a man in a dress is seen as perverse by a lot of people. A lot of this is changing though, I recently did a drag hour story time at Rabble Books, where I got to read books to kids and they loved it, so there’s definitely space for it. I’m excited to see this happen more in the future, it just takes time and I’m hoping it’ll come by soon because young people eat up things like Ru Paul’s Drag Race, it’s such a popular TV show and it’s the perfect example that while they do swear a lot it’s not anywhere less sexual than the things you’ll see on HBO or Netflix. Honestly, we just wear sequins, I don’t know what the big deal is.

Do you have any advice for young people wanting to get into drag or young people exploring their gender identity?

To start with, to those young people who are questioning their gender, I just want to acknowledge that first of all that they’re valid and that they’re allowed to question, and that doesn’t mean they have to decide who they are for the rest of their lives. Some people go through various changes in their identity and that’s ok. I identified as female for a long time, and I don’t now. I might identify as something else in the future, and that’s ok and regardless of what I identify as I’m still valid. Also, they don’t have to come out if they don’t feel safe, but there is a community of people out there that will support them and be willing to accept whatever fun thing they want to try.

In relation to that with drag, for me what drag has proven is that gender is a costume, it’s 100% costume. There’s this great quote from Ru Paul that says “We are all born naked and the rest is drag.” For some reason when you’re born, they give you a gender and that gender tells you what you’re supposed to wear, and nobody questions it. Drag gives us the opportunity to laugh at the fact that we’re expected to wear a suit if we’re a man or if we’re a woman we’re expected to wear something floral, and if you wear floral as a man then you’re gay, it’s just so funny, and that’s where drag can be really therapeutic for people because it gives you an excuse to try different things. Even if you want to dress in a different way, it doesn’t mean you’re a drag performer, if someone says you’re a drag queen because you wear a dress and you wear extravagant makeup and were assigned male at birth, you’re not a drag queen if you don’t want to be. You don’t need to be a drag performer to dress the way you want to dress. But drag is a great place to try that out.

Also I love ya, and you’ll be ok, even though I’ve never met ya.

What does the Youth Week WA 2021 theme ‘Our Path’ mean to you?

I guess what ‘Our Path’ means to me is that nobody has the same path as anybody else, and something that I’ve been trying to remind myself of as a young person is that there isn’t a set time limit or a map. Even if you don’t feel like you’re on the right path, that’s ok, and you don’t have to hurry up and go figure out what it is. It’s ok to be on the same path as someone else and to feel a sense of community. There’s this new culture that everyone has to be an individual and everyone has to be brand new, and the coolest and hottest new trendsetter. But really we’re all a big community, and we’re all people living in the same space, and we’re all trying to just get through life together and it’s ok to lean on, learn from and support each other. There can be a lot of division thanks to social media and individualistic culture, so I guess ‘Our Path’ is finding yours and whether that looks like your community, that’s also ok. Also don’t feel the need to follow anyone else, and it’s ok to not know the end. Go find a path in nature, it’s awesome for your mental health. Don’t forget to take the wrong turn, ok that’s all of my cliches.

If you’re a young person interested in drag, register for our workshop Drag Kingdom on Friday 9 April and come along to our all ages drag show Drag Yourself Out! on Sunday 11 April. Both events are free and are presented as part of the Youth Week WA KickstART Festival 2021. Follow Justin’s work via his Instagram.

INTERVIEW BY: YOSHIKA KON